Not necessarily, if it's done right then they can gell together. They're not mutually exclusive, or polar opposites. Socialism doesn't equal anti constitution, some of the very people whose writing we base our constitution on. Jean Jacques Rousseau, john locke, and thomas paine (rumored) to name a few.

Communism/Socialism was made to be evil by those in the mccarthy era. The difference with socialism as it is now days, and how it was intended, is that back then it was supposed to help, not support.

That's my type of socialism, and I feel it's right and works. It's time for the end of this red/conservative paranoia over it. It's truly a good idea, IF done right.

Don't get me started on the whole big brother gov't deal, my mother dealt me that stuff for years. It's a load of hokey.

ANTHEMROAD POSTS:

I disagree...Socialism and Communism by virtue of being what they are can not under any circumstances ever "work" for the good of the people.

What do you mean? Of course it does. OUr Founders wanted to "insure domestic tranquillity" through the Constitution as the framework of our government. They did this by recognizing our God given natural right to life in their Declaration of Independence. The Declaration is the why and the Constituion is the how of American government. This was later protected against infringement by the 14th Amdendment. The God-given inalienable right to Life was protected for almost 200 years until the Supreme Court decided to "legalize" abortion in 1973. But ten years before that in 1963, the state threw prayer out of school and the Ten Commandments out of public buildings, court house hallways, etc. and it's been downhill for us from there.

Make no mistake....over these 40 or so years, our failure to protect the paramount right to life is leading us to totalitarianism and the dictatorship of relativism.

ANTHEMROAD POSTS:

I disagree...Socialism and Communism by virtue of being what they are can not under any circumstances ever "work" for the good of the people.

What do you mean? Of course it does. OUr Founders wanted to "insure domestic tranquillity" through the Constitution as the framework of our government. They did this by recognizing our God given natural right to life in their Declaration of Independence. The Declaration is the why and the Constituion is the how of American government. This was later protected against infringement by the 14th Amdendment. The God-given inalienable right to Life was protected for almost 200 years until the Supreme Court decided to "legalize" abortion in 1973. But ten years before that in 1963, the state threw prayer out of school and the Ten Commandments out of public buildings, court house hallways, etc. and it's been downhill for us from there.

Make no mistake....over these 40 or so years, our failure to protect the paramount right to life is leading us to totalitarianism and the dictatorship of relativism.

Really? tell that to the hundreds of millions who suffered untold misery and suffering under it. Both real Socialism and Communism deny men have a right to private ownership of productive goods. According to them the means of production must be owned and managed by the State. Communism ruins the individual, the family, and society itself. Again, the individual right of ownership is completely abolished. No true incentive to self -development and progress is left. Freedom, so prized by all of us is destroyed, and people become just like parts of a machine.

you need to listen to your mother. 

Socialism is a very broad term that has been interpreted in many different ways. A dictionary definition has it given to any one of the schemes for changing society chiefly by an equal distribution of property possessed and regulated by the State authority.  Some socialists define it as a form of government leading to a state of society. Communism is indeed a form of Socialism in that both deny that men have a right to private ownership and a complete abolition of private ownership of all means of production.

Even though the rhetoric used to idealize each system promises a better world for the people, the power actually imposed is brutal dictatorship and oppression of the people. The two systems are completely devoid of social justice and social charity.

I sincerly hope this is a joke.

And even if it is...... it's in poor taste.

Well it's your right to disagree, but facts are facts, and they were both designed to help the people.

That's my socialism, is the kind that HELPS people.

Sorry, but you're full of shite with that. In your beliefs, you fail to see the duality of the nation and the relativism that encompasses it. If our nation was intended to be as you see it, it would've been. Our founding fathers would've made it so, but it wasn't. The contitution is a secular document, as is the DoI. There's no (constitutional) basis for the claim of the right to life due to religion, because you can't take them hand in hand. They're two entirely different things. If you claim the right (in abortion) to life based off the constitution, you're playing with dice, because who is to say that it covers unborn children? It's never defined. If you claim the right to life (in abortion) based off of religion, then you hit the brick wall of separation of church and state, that the government is not supposed to base decisions on their religion or the majority religion because we're a multi-culural/religion nation. To do so would only open up the path towards possible Theological Fascism, i.e. the very thing you claim to dislike b/c of socialism/communism.

What I mean by the state/religion point was your constant implying some sort of Christian principles to this nation; this isn't a christian nation. We're a FREE nation. We were founded as a country for those of every religion. So you trying to apply your religious beliefs on our country, to interpret things that way - is faulty, it's a fallacy.

You have to step outside of your faith for a second, just a second and see it in the eyes of those who are not Christians.

No one here, including myself, is saying their pain and suffering was fake I've an adopted grandmother who is russian, and a friend at school who is russian. They both were living in the Soviet Union. I've heard horrible stories.

What I am saying, is that we can have Socialism/Communism in our economy or government, because we already have it. The only problem with it not working right, is that people won't work together.

I'm also saying, that theoretically, ideally...as communism/socialism were designed...there were the people in mind, and their well being.

It's like any man made or ran institution, it's open to corruption. Such as, for example, your faith. Just because your God says it's perfect and whatever, doesn't make it so.

I think we're just talking past each other, or talking from different angles, because I'm talking theoretically and as applied to a nation that has shown the ability to have socialism work efficiently.

KFC, I'm not going to become paranoid over that. I'm not, I refuse to because it's just hokey created to make people afraid. I'm going to use my head; my rational, logical thinking and approach things as such. That being said, she now agrees with me. We've talked about it and she's (on her own thinking) told me that it really is silly.

These statements betray a rather frightful ignorance of history and a naivete that is perhaps endearing but nuts.  Jonestown was a 'truly good idea' to some people.

Think about it Daiwa, just think about it. Before then Communism was, granted, a put off to most. Still it wasn't "the greatest evil of our time." If the McCarthy era had never happened then I honestly - imo - I dont think communism would be such a worrysome thing by people.

The PTAP was/is completely different. Socialism doesn't equal a cult, and seems a tad off topic.I'm perfectly smart enough to realize that good ideas can go awry, just look at politics, or both parties. I realize that. I'm not f'ing stupid, alright people?

Again, as I've said, I'm discussing this theoretically.Gah, hopefully someone will understand me. Honestly I feel like i'm talking to a wall, it's pretty simple thing I'm trying to explain. I don't expect anyone to fall on their knees and say that they're all socialist now, but at least concede something.

I have.  For some 40 years or so.  Didn't say you were 'e'fing stupid,' just endearingly naive and ignorant (in the academic sense, not the pejorative).  What would you suggest as a candidate for 'the greatest evil of our time' circa 1956?

Before the allies marched into the death camps, Facism was just another word.  20 million dead in the USSR, 40 million dead in China.  How much longer do we have to pretend these things did not happen "in the name of communism" just because we are supposed to respect those who practice it?

But you are wrong.  Communism was the greatest evil of our time before McCarthy.  The problem was that most people just had not heard about the atrocities - yet.  That does not make them go away, just shows the ignorance before the enlightenment.

That's statement is a bit ironic, because under socialism you begin to waive your rights/responsibilities to the government (for entitlements), then finally under communism you have no rights, all is for the "good" of the people. Any "disagreement" is a threat to the people. You can't try it to see if you like it or not, it's not easy to throw off once it's installed. Ask the East Europeans while it's still fresh in their minds. Could the left stop at socialism without proceeding further? Well IMO the far left thinks of the government like a potato chip, "just can;t eat one".

Education must be failing in the US because we are not learning a thing from history. That or our majority "liberal left" teachers are glossing over the facts.

It boggles the mind that you always know this. How do you know and how are you always so sure?

*Sends Hugs to LW just because*