A bunch of useless crap
Published on November 25, 2006 By MasonM In Misc
Ok, I know that this is THE question. The one that has been pondered since the dawn of human intelligence. When we look around us we see everything that makes up this world, this little rock we crawl about on while it spins around and flies through the universe. I am not presenting this question as a religion vs science debate forum, but rather as a chance to knock around some ideas about how this all came to be. If your belief is creation, fine. If your belief is something other than creation, fine. But be sure to ponder all of the points as I don't feel either of them can really answer the questions.

Our little rock is made up of a myriad of materials in innumerable combinations and some of these happen to be alive. It is surrounded by countless other rocks, gases, particles, energies, and who knows what else, all flying around in the great void.

But where di all of this stuff actually come from? Religion tries to answer that question with some entity outside of our universe that created everything. Science has tried to answer the question but as of yet still really doesn't have a clue.

Religion says that someone/something created all of this universe from nothing. Ok, we know, or at least believe, that something can not be created from nothing. There have to be some raw materials to work with. As far as we understand the way things work, you simply can't get something from nothing. So, if a creator brought all of this into being, exactly what did this creator create all of this from? And how?

If there were raw materials to be used, perhaps from outside of our universe, that automatically leads to the question of where did these raw materials come from and how did they come into being? And where did this creator come from? How did he/she/it/something-else come into being? Remember, you can't get something from nothing as far as we understand things. If everything has to have a beginning, so did this creator and the materials used.

One of the most popular theories of the origin of the universe is the Big Bang theory. Ok, there was an unimaginably huge explosion that created what we understand to be our universe. This leads us to the question of what exactly was it that exploded and where did it come from? Science has been studying this question for as long as science has existed and many theories have come and gone, but with all of our knowledge and technology (the greatest Man has ever achieved) science still can not answer this ultimate question.

Perhaps it was a leak from some place outside of our universe that exploded into what we now have. Ok, where did that place come from? How did it come into being?

It's THE unanswerable question. But a fascinating one to consider. I've literally spent years considering it and have to admit that one can easily start running in logical circles when you really get in to it.

Comments
on Nov 25, 2006
losts of great questions Mason. But you're asking us humans with limited understanding to answer this?

Coming from a spiritual POV and wrestling with these same questions over the years, I've come to the conclusion that all that was created came from God himself by speaking it into existence. We see that in Genesis. We see in John that Jesus was called "The Word" as in...."In the beginning was the Word and the Word became flesh and dwelt among us."

Paul said "all things consist through him, in him, and by him" and I believe this to be true.

If there were raw materials to be used, perhaps from outside of our universe, that automatically leads to the question of where did these raw materials come from and how did they come into being? And where did this creator come from? How did he/she/it/something-else come into being? Remember, you can't get something from nothing as far as we understand things. If everything has to have a beginning, so did this creator and the materials used.

Although it does boggle the mind there were no raw materials outside the universe; the creator has always been.

Your question assumes that God is trapped within the limits of time and doesn't consider that God created time and if God was before time then he always was





on Nov 25, 2006
But you're asking us humans with limited understanding to answer this?


I'm not asking anyone to answer anything. Just kicking it out there to see how people wrestle with the questions and start a discussion. If there were satisfactory answers they would have been enshrined by now.

Your question assumes that God is trapped within the limits of time and doesn't consider that God created time and if God was before time then he always was


While this is a convenient answer it isn't acceptable. We have established within the parameters of this discussion that something can not be created out of nothing or spontaneously come into being, and that everything had to have a beginning, therefore God as you present Him/Her/It/Something-else must have had a beginning. Simply claiming that God exists outside of time and has always existed is not acceptable in this context. It may well be what you believe but it doesn't fit or answer the questions. Everything, including whatever or whoever is responsible (if anyone.anything) for this universe had to have a beginning.

It simply isn't logical to state that something, anything, even God, doesn't have some sort of origin. That is simply impossible. Even God had to have some sort of origin as his creation has an origin. The creation reflects the creator, and as already stated nothing exists without coming into being.
on Nov 26, 2006
If your belief is creation, fine. If your belief is something other than creation, fine. But be sure to ponder all of the points as I don't feel either of them can really answer the questions.


trick question. Methinks it's a little of both
on Nov 26, 2006

The question you ask is the one that I typically toss out there for those that insist the evolution is the way, the truth, and the light.

Not that I call complete b.s. on evolution, but I have serious doubts about evolution answering all of the questions of how we got to be we and didn't wind up becoming just another fish swimming around, or another bird, monkey, or some other creature.

The thing that many people that support evolution fail to realize is that they are demanding faith in the hypothesis or theory of evolution just as religious types demand faith in a higher power.

And as myself and others have stated in the past, religion and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts.  Who is to say that there wasn't a greater power at work in pushing evolution along?

on Nov 26, 2006
Maybe, just maybe . . .

(a radical idea for your consideration, with heretic shields up)

Maybe God was the child of another God in some other universe, some other time, whatever. He followed the commandments his God gave him and used the saviour in his version of things to get himself clean of sin . . . become perfect. He gets to the other side of the whole shebang, and his God says, "strong work, son. You really did good down there. Now, it's your turn."

So this once-man, now exalted, becomes God - our God - and reorganizes matter, creates our world, and starts the whole cycle over again, waiting for his children to make it back so that they can have the same opportunity his God gave him.

We are promised, after all, "all that our Father hath" - and what does he have? Godhood. So maybe, just maybe, we're gods in embryo, trying to develop so that we can make our own worlds someday and have our kids get just as confused as we are now.
on Nov 26, 2006
trick question. Methinks it's a little of both


Trick question? No, more like a tricky question.
on Nov 26, 2006
Reply #4

The question you ask is the one that I typically toss out there for those that insist the evolution is the way, the truth, and the light.

Not that I call complete b.s. on evolution, but I have serious doubts about evolution answering all of the questions of how we got to be we and didn't wind up becoming just another fish swimming around, or another bird, monkey, or some other creature.

The thing that many people that support evolution fail to realize is that they are demanding faith in the hypothesis or theory of evolution just as religious types demand faith in a higher power.

And as myself and others have stated in the past, religion and evolution are not necessarily mutually exclusive concepts. Who is to say that there wasn't a greater power at work in pushing evolution along?

Perhaps. But the question itself is regarding the origin of everything in the universe. For something to evolve or not, it had to come from somewhere.
on Nov 26, 2006
Reply #5
Maybe, just maybe . . .

(a radical idea for your consideration, with heretic shields up)

Maybe God was the child of another God in some other universe, some other time, whatever. He followed the commandments his God gave him and used the saviour in his version of things to get himself clean of sin . . . become perfect. He gets to the other side of the whole shebang, and his God says, "strong work, son. You really did good down there. Now, it's your turn."

So this once-man, now exalted, becomes God - our God - and reorganizes matter, creates our world, and starts the whole cycle over again, waiting for his children to make it back so that they can have the same opportunity his God gave him.

We are promised, after all, "all that our Father hath" - and what does he have? Godhood. So maybe, just maybe, we're gods in embryo, trying to develop so that we can make our own worlds someday and have our kids get just as confused as we are now.


Interesting, but where did the matter come from?
on Nov 26, 2006
Interesting, but where did the matter come from?


You know . . .

The answer is 42.

Yup. 42. It is, after all, the answer to life, the universe, and everything.

You just have to know what's the right question.
on Nov 26, 2006
The two questions we can’t seem to grasp are how can something come from nothing? And how can space go on forever?

The assumption that something can’t come from nothing appears to be false as we are here. There are many things that go on around us that we are completely oblivious to. Science has developed methods to show us some of this so it stands to reason that there is more waiting to be discovered.

From an evolutionary stand point there would be no reason for us to have developed the ability to perceive these things yet. In fact our perception of everything is just a simplified interpretation of what is actually happening around us.

Basically I believe we will know the answer we just ain’t smart enough yet.

These unanswered questions are why I’m an Agnostic. I find the universe much more interesting without it being willed into existence by a supernatural being that defies explanation.
on Nov 26, 2006
I've always liked the theory of spontaneous creation. It's the theory which suggests that quite complex objects are created out of nothing seemingly at random. It's the theory which explains the appearance of additional socks in the wash, the 'breeding' of coathangers and the inexplicable appearance of obscure utensils (like egg-slicers, apple corers, avacado machines etc) in even a man's kitchen drawers.

The universe was merely the end result of this theory writ large.
on Nov 27, 2006
Actually, we are just a dust mote on a flower in the garden of God.